Last day of the metabolism titles – at least until my next test!!
I got up this morning knowing I needed to work out first thing because I’m meeting friends to study in Rock Hill at 11 and need to leave around 10:15 (uh oh, I don’t have much time!)
I decided a run would be the most efficient use of my time. Came down and had a tiny piece of toast with some Fortnum and Mason raspberry jam before I left. + water.
After eating my toast my insulin likely spiked as the starches headed into my stomach and then small intestines where they were chopped into dextrins and then maltose and then at the brush border, glucose + glucose before they crossed into the blood stream
I set out on my run and my ATP-Creatine Phosphate system woke up – for about 10 seconds, until I built up some lactate that was taken to the liver for gluconeogenesis [making glucose from sources other than carbohydrate] before my aerobic system woke up a few minutes in.
During the first mile, I ran pretty hard – about an 8:27 pace. I was breathing hard but my legs felt good. The gears of aerobic respiration were cranking through glycolysis, the Krebs and the Electron Transport Chain to provide energy.
My insulin to glucagon ratio tipped to favor glucagon as exercise increased levels and glycogenolysis [the breakdown of glycogen] kicked in. cAMP is stimulated, which stimulates phosphorylase and glucose branches are chopped off of the glycogen trees. Epinephrine in my muscles helped breakdown the stored glycogen there and glucagon stimulated glycogenolysis in the liver to maintain a steady blood glucose level as it traveled to the tissues that needed it most. Perhaps my brain in this case because I was thinking hard about my life as I always do on runs!!
Around mile 3 I hit a wall and my pace slowed a bit. Perhaps at this point I started to run a little lower on glycogen and lypolysis [the breakdown of fat] kicked in a bit. Because fat takes more oxygen to oxidize, my breathing got harder, causing me to slow a bit. Gluconeogenesis is stimulated here as glycerol, lactate, pyruvate and perhaps fatty acids are used to provide some energy.
Miles 4 and 5 for held at about an 8:50 pace as I continued to burn stored glycogen and oxidize fat. Did you know that carbohydrates are very expensive to turn into fat? The body likes to take carbohydrate and turn it into energy or temporary storage in the form of glycogen. It is expensive to convert glucose to fat – it takes about 25% the energy in the CHO to do so. Protein is less expensive at 8-25% and good ole fat is only 5%. Lesson: If you’re going to consume anything in EXCESS, make it be carbohydrates, not fat! (Of course fat is imperative to optimal health and tastes delicious, so don’t take that the wrong way)
So as I concluded my 5.6 mile run, I began to think about what delicious foods I could have for breakfast. The new loaf of cinnamon raisin walnut sparked interest, as my stomach again felt a little uneasy after such a hard run.
I decided on a slice of CRW bread from Great Harvest topped with some TJ’s PB, half a mashed banana + honey
PLUS a little yogurt cup with grapes, chia seeds and Kashi GoLean Crunch
About the time of ingestion, the foods again are absorbed into the blood stream [except for the fats, which go through the lymph!] and to the liver. Blood sugar rises. New processes take over as insulin levels rise and glucagon levels decrease. cAMP is inhibited and glycogen synthase is stimulated. Glycogen levels are restored in the liver and muscles as the branching enzyme builds the tress back up. Gluconeogenesis is no longer needed, as there is sufficient glucose from food. And my stomach is happy!
[Hope you enjoyed the science lesson! I am not an expert, so if I made a mistake in any of the above, it’s just the learning process at work!]
Half caf!
The long day begins but once it’s over, it’s all downhill until my trip this weekend!!!
Allison K says
Loved the Science! My favorite class in higschool was Human Biology! Even though that was 9 (oh man, I feel old) years ago lots of what you said I remembered.
rhodeygirl says
I’m going to be honest.. I skipped over the science-y parts 🙂
Your run sounds awesome though Kath! I have noticed over the years that your speed has slowly gotten faster, and it seems like your runs are easier from the way you write about them now compared to then. I hope I have the same running development as you!
Julie @ Peanut Butter Fingers says
i now feel about a billion times dumber. 😉 yay for all your knowledge & it sounds like your run was good too! double yay! 🙂
the mushy banana toast looks delish!
Jessica @ How Sweet It Is says
You really know your stuff! You’ll do great on the test!
Carrie H says
🙂 Thanks for the information. I like to think about how my food fueling me when I am running — it is something I really don’t know much about!
Naomi says
kath, you REALLy know your stuff, I love how you incorporated this into your daily life!! it probably made you understand it alot better too!
that banana/honey combo looks amazing!!
kay (eating machine) says
this brings back bad memories of taking anatomy and physiology. 🙂
Kat (Kat's Daily Plate) says
haha. Love the biology lesson! A very “real world” application of what you’ve learned- its great.
You will do awesome on your test!!
Leianna says
I learned all about all that in my exercise physiology class, and it all came back to me so I understood it!
Great lesson and recap for me, good luck studying and it looks like you know what you’re doing:)
talesfromtwocities says
Yikes that is a lot of science for my non scientific brain! Thanks for the lesson 🙂
Christin says
Kath, I loved the extra information! (Even though I didn’t understand it all…) Applying what you learn to everyday life is such a good way to remember stuff. I also like to think about how the good food I eat fuels my body. I just don’t go as in-depth as you do. Maybe one day… 🙂
And I DIDN’T think it was boring.
And I NEVER learned all that in introductory Bio. 😉 Haha.
Leah @ L4L says
LOVE IT! Is it bad I knew nearly everything you were talking about from an intro physiology class?! I can’t wait to dive into more details and be able to regurgitate it like you just did! Great study technique! 😉
Anne Marie@Her New Weigh says
Thanks for that information!
Beth @ DiningAndDishing says
haha, impressive post!!! best of luck on your exam – looks like you’ll do well :O)
Carrie H says
(p.s. I read almost every day but don’t comment that often, but I wanted to say thanks after I saw the comment above mine … good job just deleting it. No reason for it at all … )
Jocelyn says
hmm I didn’t understand most of that…but excellant lol
Whitney @ Lettuce Love says
I love all the science talk! You make me wan to go back to school just to learn about all of that fun stuff!
Abby (Abby's VeGaN Eats) says
I really really tried to follow the science part, but I will admit I had to re-read several times! THanks for the info, you certainly know your stuff!
Sarah @ The Foodie Diaries says
Haha this was aborable, Kath! Good luck on your exam!
Bronwyn says
Hahahaha. Nice. That was actually pretty interesting! yes I am a fulltime nerd, thank you very much. I haven’t really done metabolism in that sort of detail, but it seems super interesting and I can’t wait to study it!
Abby (Nibble, Nourish, Run) says
Excellent lesson! I’m such a wannabe science nerd so I LOVED that!
Shannon (The Daily Balance) says
Well you certainly sound like an expert! Good luck!
Jessica says
Wait .. I thought protein was the most expensive to turn into fat? Maybe I am thinking of something else… I think I’m thinking of how expensive it is to digest protein actually. yes, okay. Haha I am confusing myself. Your post is bringing back memories from last semester! Hehe!
-muffy
Madeline @ Greens and Jeans says
I was a human biology major so I actually laughed out loud when I read your post because I actually think about stuff like that all of the time (huge nerd, I know)! Thank you for the morning giggle!
Jess says
Funny post. I remember the hardest part of the Krebs cycle for me to learn was keeping track of net ATP molecules through the process. Turns out I haven’t needed that factoid through my entire science career!
Julia says
That toast…that must me delicious! Mmm…
xxx Julia (Taste of Living)
Julie @savvyeats says
I love love love this post! I’m pretty sure that makes me a major nerd… 😉 But since I’m toying with the idea of becoming an R.D., I guess its a good thing that I find this post fascinating, right?
Kristin @ Iowa Girl Eats says
Well I’d say you’re ready for your test! Hot damn, that’s a lot of knowledge!! 😀
Have a great Wednesday!
Courtney says
I absolutely loved this post and I hoped it help cement some of your studying for you by relating it to real life and then jotting it down! Since I’m getting my personal training certification right now, I am learning about some of these concepts, although not in as much depth as you. I really enjoyed reading all about this.
Courtney
Adventures in Tri-ing
Marina says
Thank god I had biochemistry last semester 😀 Great post really.
amanda says
Loved this post, I am an exercise and sports science major and I just finished Bio and now im in Anatomy and Phys. and I understood almost everything you wrote and had a smile on my face while reading lol!
Fallon says
Love the lesson!
Angharad (Eating for England) says
Kath, I really really enjoyed reading this! So interesting to know what the body is really up to while we run! I was comparing it all to my run this morning and all the walls I hit etc. So interesting!!
Your brekkie looks just gorgeous too – great post run deliciousness. Have a great day!
Lizzy says
i love the addition of grapes in that bowl. i think they make everything better! 🙂
Runeatrepeat says
I loved the post! Very interesting all the things going on in our bodies on a run!
Dawn says
haha Wow! Very interesting post–great information! 🙂
Caroline says
Fascinating lesson and what a great way to learn the information!
Nic says
I love the science part! Now I have a question for you, in a person with PCOS I was under the impression that more carbs were turned into fat than expended and that’s why we tend to have apple shaped figures. Is that true? And how can that be changed through ways that don’t include meds?
christie, honoring health says
Good job on converting what you know into your own real life!
Erika says
That bread sounds delicious!
Have a fabulous day!
Kailey (SnackFace) says
Whoah! Oh my gosh, I got so lost during that! You are phenomenal to be able to understand and memorize all that info! Crazy.
I’m loving the breakfast toast with mashed naner. YUM!
whitney says
that is so interesting! I love the science involved in your post haha and its a great study technique to recall all of that. Good luck with your busy day.
Laura @ Backstage Pass to Health & Happiness says
What a fun technical analysis 🙂
The toast looks great… I gotta try adding mashed banana sometime!
~Laura
Backstage Pass to Health & Happiness
Laura MKE.blogspot.com
Kate says
I read every bit of the science lesson, that was great! It is wonderful reading your blog because i am going into Dietetics to become an RD eventually too and it gets me really excited to see some of the stuff i will be doing.
Have a nice day 🙂
Kate G.
Arianna says
Absolutely loved the sciencified run!
Deb (SmoothieGirlEatsToo) says
Yay! I’m going to go CARBO-load because KATH said it was ok! 😀 Ha ha!
My brain is fuzzy from all the science!
Mara @ What's For Dinner? says
I have to admit: this post made my brain hurt.
brandi says
ha, I love the science lesson 🙂 and that new bread sounds great!
fructa says
That was fascinating! It’s so cool that you’re learning all of this. Thanks for sharing it!!
Erin says
Most.educational.post.EVER!!!
LOL. (((science)))
Amanda@lessonsinmoderation says
I love this post! I feel like I learned something 🙂 It must be cool to have that knowledge and understand how/why your body is reacting to certain things during your run. I may have to read up on this stuff! Thanks Kath!
Jo @ Seeking Healthy Balance says
Wow I found the info in this post really interesting! Keep sharing 🙂
AnneNP says
Great post Kath! Except you forgot the bonus from exercise… you’ll continue gluconeogenesis for a little while even after you stop exercising, which is the fun part! I agree on your comments from yesterday about making charts to remember things…it’s proven that you’ll remember things better if you can visualize them on a page- it’s how I studied for my boards!
Amelia says
That was the coolest post ever! I can’t wait until I’m there. 🙂 I’m sure your ace your test!
Katie says
Loved that post! I am such a nerd, I was laughing out loud. Good luck on the test!
elizabeth says
love it!!!
i need to do more posts as study tools!! coming soon: Nutrition Therapy for Dialysis. That’ll be a fun post!
Don’t you love dietetics????
Food Makes Fun Fuel says
Hahah, wow, that’s a lot of knowledge to take in! I try not to think about it that much or my head would explode
MelissaNibbles says
Our bodies do a lot of work while we’re just chewing away on our yummy food. Thanks for the info Kath. It was fun to read!
Allie says
ha ha- that was great kath!
I feel like i was back in biochem- for my phd by the way- your science is great.
SnowKat says
Love, love, LOVED this post !
It reminded me of talking to my brother (the biochem major) when he was in school.
Cynthia (It All Changes) says
This reminded me of basic nutrition in undergrad. I always had to make up stories like this to make it more understandable. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
natalie shaw says
How great to blog about what you are studying. I’m sure it makes it that much more impressed in your mind. It was great info and definetly something I’ll put to good use!
Beth says
I love this post. I was a bio major in college, but I just remember in high school that we used to study for AP bio tests on the bus on the way to cross country meets. I once had “phosphofructokinase” stuck in my head for a whole meet! It has a good beat to run to I think 🙂
Heather @ Health, Happiness, and Hope says
OMG, so confusing, but totally interesting! It’s so neat how everything you’re learning can be applied to actual situations. 🙂
What a awesome breakfast to fuel you up after the run. I’m definitely craving that greek yogurt right now!
Heather says
Very interesting – I had a little trouble following though! Sounds like you are well prepared for your test though – it is neat that you can explain how your body processes food!
Steph says
Wow! Thanks for all that science info 🙂
Your coffee looks extra delicious today!
Sarah R says
Good luck on your test. From the looks of things, you’ll do fine!
Jenna says
breakfast looks yummy especially the bread!
love your nutrition voacb! wanna take my nutrition tests for me?! hah.
jenna
caronae says
You definitely sound like you know your metabolism 🙂
I have actually heard from several “expert” books (and my parents, who are both doctors with metabolism issues) that carbs are the thing you should actually NOT eat in excess, due to some complicated mechanism that I can’t explain which basically involves your body storing carbs as fat and NOT storing fat as fat. A lot of studies who have fed people high fat high protein diets have shown better weight loss, metabolism increases, etc. Definitely interesting to think about. I know for me, if I eat too many carbs I gain weight quickly, but I have NO problem eating excess protein or fat!
Wendy says
Impressive! The intricacies of the human body never cease to amaze me. 🙂
Angela (Oh She Glows) says
haha oh man this brought back so many memories of studying for nutrition and bio sciences!!! I forgot most of it now, but it does sound familiar, haha.
PRT says
Ha, ha! I just has a flashback to my human biochemistry and nutrition class!! So funny!
I are really prepare for the exam. Good luck!
Jessica says
I’m a dietetic students so I LOVED your explanation of how the body utalizes energy! Crazy how all the stuff just becomes second nature after learning it so much.
Sarah says
I wish I knew what you were talking about!
Kath says
caronae ,
Hmm. That would be the exact opposite!? When you say “gain weight” you don’t just mean water weight, correct? Perhaps there is a difference between simple vs. complex carbs with this?
Kath
Kath says
Sarah,
Thanks 🙂 🙂
Alan,
Hence the reason why I said there could be errors in my thinking!
Protein is expensive to digest, but the statement above was referring simply about conversion to fat.
K
Alan Aragon says
Hello Kath,
I checked out your profile and saw that you’re formally studying nutrition. Welcome to the club… Can you do me a favor and provide a source for this claim you made:
“It is expensive to convert glucose to fat – it takes about 25% the energy in the CHO to do so. Protein is less expensive at 8-25% and good ole fat is only 5%.”
Thanks.
Liz says
Thanks for the lesson! It’s crazy all the intricate little details of what’s going on in our bodies constantly!!!
Kath says
Alan,
Source: my Metabolism professor, who I won’t list for privacy, but he has two masters degrees and a pHD in nutrition + biochemistry and is an R.D., so I trust his information.
But that said, I did state a disclaimer that my post was just me understanding the material and there could be errors.
Kath
Kath says
rhodeygirl,
I have gotten faster, but I’m not sure they’re easier!!
Nic,
I really don’t know much about PCOS at all. Wish I could recommend something.
AnneNP,
How exciting!! I def. forgot that 🙂
Beth,
HAHAHA – that was all over our test today!! I get big words stuck in my head too 🙂
Kath
sarah (ghost world) says
fabulous post!!! i loved it and completely approve!
Alan Aragon says
Hi Kath,
Over the years I’ve had many students (& clients) who are RDs, PhDs, and MDs. All highly educated, all highly intelligent. However, they’re not immune to error, so from one thinking person to another, I’d advise you to question everything. Investigate the evidence behind the claims – you’ll be surprised to see how many errors there are. I have a couple of nutrition degrees myself, but would never use them as an automatic basis for correctness in my claims. That would be a fallacious appeal to authority.
Getting to the point… On the whole, protein is the most metabolically “expensive” macronutrient. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I’d like to see it. Perhaps you can ask your professor for a simple Pubmed reference for his claim. If he’s unable to do this, it would illustrate why I’m advising you to question everything, regardless of how academically credentialled the source.
Joanne says
I feel like I just got a great work out just ready about all the goings on in the body while running. That was pretty neat!
Alan Aragon says
Hey Kath,
It’s not just the digestion of protein that’s more calorically expensive, but also its absorption and disposal. If you’re talking about the metabolic cost of protein’s conversion to fat in an overfeeding situation, then protein would win out as well, since it has a greater thermic effect than carbohydrate due to a more arduous pathway of conversion. This greater thermic effect – by definition – is a greater metabolic cost. Protein’s greater thermic effect wouldn’t magically disappear in an overfeeding situation when compared to overfeeding carbohydrate. This is pretty basic stuff. If your professor claimed that protein has a lower metabolic cost for lipogenesis than carbohydrate, you almost OWE it to yourself to watch him flounder around when asked for peer-reviewed primary research evidence for this claim.
One of my main criticisms of the college dietetics curriculum is that there not enough critical thought and plenty of blind acceptance. Quality or weight of the evidence is rarely put to honest, dilligent scrutiny. I think that RDs & dietetics students as a group would benefit greatly by taking a more skeptical approach to the information they’re fed. I’ve given several continuing education courses to RDs, and most of them will openly admit that an examination of the research behind the claims is sorely lacking in the field.
Kath says
Thanks for the challenge Alan 🙂
Kath
Alan Aragon says
No probs, Kath. Please report back on the response of your prof – a bunch of good bros are watching this 😉
Jiyoung says
I liked that as I was reading your post it was also helping me prep for my own adv nutrition exam I have coming up. Thanks!
Elizabeth says
Hilarious! Great idea for a post. Hope your test went well.
Susan says
Bahaha, my eyes totally glazed over during this post. But the pictures are pretty! 😛
maria says
Oh goodness that cereal… it just looks so yummy. Good thing it is time for my breakfast!!!!
Brittany says
what? I feel so educated and I think that was the post of the year, who knew that all happend inside.
Julia says
Bravo Alan Aragon! I agree that RDs and dietetics students lack the ability to critically analyze science. They simply accept research at face value with no thought (or ability to understand) whether the research was well-designed or what the data actually means. Actually, many true scientists physicists for example) would state that nutritional science is a ‘soft science’ and, in fact, the quality of research in this field is poor (at best) and getting worse as time goes on. Nutrition is such an emotion-based subject that research in the field has become more about what people BELIEVE to be true rather than what is scientifically valid. For example, by the way dietitians talk, you would think sugar is white death, however, there is no credible evidence linking sugar intake to any chronic disease (including diabetes) or condition (including obesity). But I BELIEVE sugar is bad…so it MUST be!!
Alan Aragon says
Julia,
Since the American Dietetic Association shares a corporate partnership with the Coca-Cola company, I’m pretty sure they don’t knock sugar consumption too badly 🙂
eggie says
Alan knows his stuff!!!!!
Lara says
I also am so pleased to see Alan chime in here because the statement about CHO being expensive to turn into fat did not sit right with me at all based on the limited knowledge I have of this topic. And the following statment about if you are going to overeat do so with carbs made me almost spit out the water I was drinking.
I knew the ADA had lots of shortcomings but a corporate partnership with Coca-Cola? yikes.
Lynn @ The Actors Diet says
yes, professor kath eats real food
Julia says
Carbohydrate in excess easily converted to fat. Over-consuming carbohydrate is the absolute the worst thing to do from a weight gain perspective. Most people who have been on a low CHO diet will tell you how incredibly it worked and how easily fat was lost. Dr. Atkins was a smart man.
Kath says
Continuing the discussion, these are the two articles that we discussed in class. I realize they are not the most current, so if new research has come out that contradicts these, please share!
Use and storage of carbohydrate and fat”,JP Flatt, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 61, 952S-959S
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/61/4/952S?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=flatt&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
“Carbohydrates as a source of energy”, E Jequier, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 59, 682S-685S
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/59/3/682S?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=Jequier&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
[Hope the links work]
Kath
amanda (Two Boos Who Eat) says
Loved this post!
Alan Aragon says
Kath,
I’m not sure if you’re using those papers as a basis to support your argument, but both of them discuss the comparative storage and utilization of carbohydrate and fat –not carbohydrate and protein.
Tay says
This made me smile Kath 😀 But also made me glad I’m not stressed out by studying all that stuff anymore!
Emily says
haha! love the use of all the carbohydrate metabolism terms… if i were not in colorado i would think we were in the same class… we had our exam today on CHO metabolism… hope you did well!
Kath says
Alan,
Haven’t we been focusing on carbohydrate? The point of the articles we discussed in class was that CHO is not easily converted to fat. We did not discuss protein, but my prof said its fate is less known because of the variation in the research and it lies somewhere in the middle – either right up there with CHO or closer to 8%ish.
If my comment about consuming in excess is what is bothering you, then please disregard it as a complete myth. That was just how I interpreted the information, but like I said in my post, I am not an expert and could very well be wrong!
Kath
Alan Aragon says
Hey Kath,
You’re incorrect that we’ve been “focusing on carbohydrate”; that would be a grossly incomplete representation of the discussion at hand. Please re-read the exchange between you & me. It’s precisely about comparing carbohydrate and protein’s cost of conversion into fat. I’m not trying to be antagonistic, I’m just not letting you get away with incohesive argumentation. This is how I operate in debates – the points of contention must be consistent.
As for your prof’s mentioning that protein’s metaboloic cost is “somewhere in the middle – either right up there with CHO or closer to 8%ish.”, this has already been asserted, so it’s redundant. He can make all the assertions he wants, but I asked specifically for a study reference supporting this claim. You (he) did not provide it. I feel like Nostradamus right now.
Regarding the idea that carbohydrate is not easily converted to fat, this may be correct in certain contexts when compared to dietary fat. However (and most importantly relating to our discussion), we’re not debating over the comparative ease of body fat conversion of carbohydrate versus fat. I’m not saying you’re purposely creating a strawman here, but this is what you’ve done.
Finally, your focus on the conversion of carbohydrate to body fat misses the other half of the fat balance equation. In certain circumstances (partucularly when discussing short-term outcomes), it may require a large single dose of carbohydrate for conversion of fat to occur. However, what happens simultaneously is a decrease in fat oxidation. So, you’re not necessarily ‘beating the system’ by having carbs in excess if given the choice (as you mentioned in your original blog post). More than once you’ve told me that you could be wrong. Well, I agree about that so no need to belabor the point.
Again, I’m very calm as I type this; it’s not meant to be a battle. I’m an educator, and one of the best ways to teach is to have students run into their own logical impasses. They almost never forget the lesseons learned that way. I’m just trying to open your eyes and mind to the holes in the case you’re presenting.
What I suggest you do now is honor the original request get your professor to link you to SPECIFIC STUDIES supporting the numbers he dished out. Don’t do this for me, do it for you. You’re the one paying good money to get a degree, so you need to put your professors to task in facilitating this – not spewing out hot air. He already floundered once, let’s see if he can actually deliver (he won’t). Perhaps I’ll have have a shot at another claivoyant moment?
Thanks for being a good sport.
Alan Aragon says
PS – if you feel a little over your head in this, you can invite your prof to this discussion and I’ll deal with him directly.
Otherwise, put the man to task – it’s not a sin to have anyone back up their claim, especially if they’re in a position of influence. If he has the research evidence supporting the numbers he mentioned, it should be a snap to send it to you or link it to you.
Alan Aragon says
Lara,
Here’s the link to the official announcement of the American Dietetic Association’s partnership with Coca-Cola:
http://eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/media_16174_ENU_HTML.htm
Lulz & controversy have been a-plenty.
Kath says
Alan,
It seems to me that you are more focused on the prospect of my professor “floundering” than you are about the original topic itself (which it seems we have come to an agreement on re. CHO vs. FAT storage and some of the research about it.)
My focus has always been on carbohydrate-to-fat here. It was in class and it has been in the comments. Perhaps we are each having our own one-sided discussion here? Our class discussion about those two articles had little to do with protein, so I’m not sure why you are accusing me of changing the subject. In class the consensus was that research on protein is inconslusive, which was emphasized by the large range he listed. Could it be more expensive than 25%? There are probably studies that showed that that I have not read. But again, we did not discuss protein in any detail, nor did my prof claim that that range was hard data. Taking words out of context leads to easy misinterpretation.
I suppose I could do conduct a literature review of the research on the protein range, but frankly I’ve got a lot going on right now and don’t have the time. Perhaps you know of some articles that would be of interest?
As I’ve said over and over, the above post was just MY conclusion from our discussion in class and I certainly could have misconstrued some of it, particularly my comment on excess, which was how my brain understood the research at the time. Hence the disclaimer I gave to my readers to take anything with a grain of salt!
K
Alan Aragon says
Kath,
Please re-read my posts starting from the beginning (#76), because you’re missing my points of contention. I was questioning a specific claim you made related to the metabolic cost of lipogenesis resulting from carbohydrate versus protein intake. I’ve stuck with this line of questioning throughout the entire discussion. This is what others in this discussion have questioned as well. No one here is disputing the (generally) greater ease of lipogenesis resulting from fat compared to carb ingestion. Another importan point you seem to have missed is that there are 2 sides to the fat balance equation: synthesis & oxidation. You’ve been focused strictly on the synthesis side, that you’ve missed my point about the suppressive effect of carb excess on fat oxidation.
When I asked you to show me the research evidence for your originally quoted claim that carbohydrate overfeeding is less lipogenic than protein overfeeding, you passed the buck to your prof, and got no evidence as a result. This is exactly what I was warning you about regarding the blind acceptance of lecture material.
Not sure how much more clear I can make this. Let me suggest again that you re-read my posts.
Alan Aragon says
PS – don’t try shifting the burden of proof. You’re the one who made the bold claim, so the burden of proof is on you to substantiate it.
Kath says
Alan,
I re-read all of your posts and re-read all of mine. I stand by my latest comment on all of the counts I outlined!
AGAIN, I explained that the range was speculation – NOT FACT and I should have clarified that in the post since it was taken out of context. I am not claiming it as fact. So to answer your question to provide a source of my claim, I have no source. It is just speculation.
K
Jen says
Kath,
You seem pretty defensive for someone who is supposed to be a student of nutrition. You might want to do a background check on the guy you’re arguing with and go into “student mode”, recognizing your limits as a newcomer to the dietetics field. If you’re not familiar with Alan and his work, you might want to hit Google and get ready to take notes. I’m just trying to help you since your intentions are good, but your approach is digging you into a hole. Kind of painful to watch.
That said, I love your recipes. I’m going to try the oatmeal ones ASAP 🙂
Cheers,
J
Kath says
Jen,
That’s just my point – I am not arguing against him! I think we’re just going in circles.
Kath
Jen says
Alan has been very clear in his line of reasoning. He actually got you to demonstrate that your source of evidence was not solid. Otherwise you’d be ending this debate with a research citation showing that your claim was true. The only circles I’m seeing are the one’s you’re making around Alan’s direct questions to you.
And, can I ask you what your speculation is based on? Alan already showed why basing speculations on professor hearsay can lead to a dead end like it did here.
Cheers,
J
CJ Fitness says
Kath – I think where you went wrong was saying that your professor said this and therefore it must be right. That’s a common newbie shortsight that Alan did a good job showing you why it’s not a valid argument.
Matt says
Sigh…
What Kath meant regarding “circles” is that Alan has been specifically harping on this protein claim, while Kath has maintained that her lecture was not focused on protein lipogenesis.
On a spinoff topic, are we never to trust a single thing a professor says without them citing an article? Seriously, what do you do as a student when you have actual obligations and deadlines, and a professor with more experience and credentials teaches you something? How can you not be expected to accept it as mostly truth at the very least? Is there anyone here (who is actually still reading this tired tired “discussion”) who went out and verified everything a professor taught them during school?
Guff. Now back to much more exciting (and nerdy) nutritional applications of enzymes, starches, proteins, fats, and fibers – yeast nutrition! I particularly like it when they eat the carbs.
CJ Fitness says
She basically made the claim, then denied that she made it, deflecting to the papers discussed in her class.
Jen says
Matt,
Why do you think Alan had to “harp” about the protein claim? Because it was never adequately addressed or acknowledged by Kath. To her credit, she did say that she neglected to clarify the claim as speculation instead of fact. Also, if you think that only students have obligations and deadlines, you must be living in a dreamworld. She positioned herself as the expert by blogging about nutritional science, so it’s completely fair to call her out on what she got wrong. If anyone is so green as to accept their professors’ teachings unquestioningly, then they certainly are not in a position to make claims to the public.
Cheers,
J
Jason says
Hey Alan,
While I agree with your statements let me say that you are a pretty low person to come into a blog of a student who is trying to learn and bully her. Seriously dude?
Do you work in a day that you have time to go around the internet and fight with everyone you see all the time?
Don’t any of you Lyle lickers have something better to do? She isn’t claiming to be some expert, she got it wrong, and she runs a little foodie blog. You are being smug when you could apprach it in a nicer manner and then you go and make your “hatin” thread trying to pay yourself on the back.
Wow, takes a REALLY big man to PWND a student who is just trying to learn and maybe is a bit young. You claim to be more noble but you are just like the rest of them. I am glad I never subscribed to your research review.
Go ahead and collect your hate board pongs. I have more respect for the girl who got it wrong than you. Obviously I come from BR and obviously I am tired of the Alan Aragon is god chants. You’re the man, great, go you.
I hope you got the acceptance you needed today. Sad.
Alan Aragon says
Jason,
You sound a little disgruntled.
Do you want a cookie?
How about a manly hug?
Let me know, I’ll see what I can do to help.
Frank says
Jason, please!
Its no wonder that graduate students leave their courses with no concept of critical analysis when people like you deride others for requiring evidence to substatiate claims.
But you have created a nice strawman, and proceeded to bash it down, so I am sure you are really happy about youself as well.
John Blackthorne says
Dear Jason,
You’ll have to excuse Alan’s passion for nutrition and nutritional education. Though he is always polite and argues facts and not feelings, he has a tendency to craft a convincing argument buttressed by citations to peer-reviewed studies from Pubmed and in doing so often overwhelms the other side of the debate.
My hope is that you and Kathy will be seekers rather than ostriches. Check out Alan’s website, read the first issue of his research review, use The Google to find his articles, maybe even listen in to a podcast–you’ll definitely learn something.
Cheers,
John
JC Carter says
Jason is one of those types we call an “enabler”
He lets all kinds of stupid things go because they’re ever so mean.
Being nice to others and sharing feelings is far more important than someone propping herself up as an authority and spreading misinformation, no matter how harmless the intent.
There’s a reason that suckers keep being born, and people like Jason are here to help them remain that way.
Jason says
Actaully if you would have bothered to read my statement you would have seen I agree with Alan on his work. I have read his precious articles and see his sucking up often. I don’t disagree with his work but nice try on the strawman.
What I disagree with is his sad display of needing that much approval that he is going to bully an young student and go back with such sad pride and make a Hatin thread about it. That is just sad is all. Sorry guys but I think it is a joke that you hunt the internet trying to show how big and bad you are.
This is the best you can do? This is your call to glory? A young woman who runs a food blog? That is my point but then you guys being the cherry pickers you are only ever see the side you want to see despite your claims otherwise.
Alan I don’t care how smart you are, you have become another Lyle Mcdonald. Hope you enjoy the hate and company you keep.
John Blackthorne says
Dear Jason,
My comments about seeking were more to Kath and less to you.
Are you jealous of Alan and Lyle? Seriously, what other motivation do you have for taking the time to read this?
Alan saw an opportunity to expand this young woman’s nutritional and intellectual horizons–to use her blog post as a teaching tool–and he did just that. He was polite and respectful throughout the discussion.
How is that low and bullying? You might have not liked his comment to you, but you launched the first ad hominem.
Cheers,
John
Lyrica says
How is asking for scientific proof “bullying”? I thought Alan was very respectful. Also this was not just a food blog-there was a tab you could click on for nutritional counseling for a fee but I don’t see that today.
JC Carter says
Jason is a fan of what we like to call an ad-hominem attack.
He doesn’t actually have a substantial point so he just attacks the person delivering the message.
Nice work on that, Jason.
Jason says
From Alan Aragon
“The body likes to take carbohydrate and turn it into energy or temporary storage in the form of glycogen. It is expensive to convert glucose to fat – it takes about 25% the energy in the CHO to do so. Protein is less expensive at 8-25% and good ole fat is only 5%.”
I ask for a source for this information, and I get:
“Source: my Metabolism professor, who I won’t list for privacy, but he has two masters degrees and a pHD in nutrition + biochemistry and is an R.D., so I trust his information.”
I school her up a little, then tell her to go hit up her prof for a reference supporting that claim, but warn her that he’ll flounder. Indeed, he flounders, and she says:
“I re-read all of your posts and re-read all of mine. I stand by my latest comment on all of the counts I outlined!
AGAIN, I explained that the range was speculation – NOT FACT and I should have clarified that in the post since it was taken out of context. I am not claiming it as fact. So to answer your question to provide a source of my claim, I have no source. It is just speculation.”
Should I feel dirty for spanking a proud undergrad dietetics student? Dirty me.
—
Yeah that is sooo polite. Alan is such a nice guy to come here and “school” a student in college. His tone through the whole post is smug.
And spare me your ad-hominem, strawman, and red herrings, and whatever term you are going to overuse this week.
I know research, I know debate, and you guys are getting your jolly off of a girl who said she was wrong and seems pretty open to the fact that she is learning.
If anyone can honestly say that Alan saying “Should I feel dirty for spanking a proud undergrad dietetics student? ” is polite then you can call me dorthy.
He was smug here and proud of being a jerk. What is the phrase you use all the time, oh yeah, apologists.
JC Carter says
Jason says:
” I know debate”
No, Jason, you don’t. You know how to jerk yourself off to a string of fallacious logic while simultaneously being a victim and a crybaby.
But that’s not debate.
I hear that being a whiny lamer with no argument and lots of lame ad-hominems means you don’t have a real point to make.
CJ Fitness says
Jason – no you don’t know debate. You’re using all sorts of tactics to distract from the relevant topic. If I were Kath, I’d be insulted that some quasi-chivalrist is coming along trying to defend her presumed helplessness because she’s a “young girl with a food blog”. Please leave, you’re just needless clutter. I was enjoying and learning a lot from this discussion before you showed up. If it was your intention to instantly degrade the quality of this discussion, good job J-man.
John Blackthorne says
Dear Jason,
He was polite and respectful throughout, if you find his tone to be “smug” then you are projecting. He asked for a reference, she came back with an appeal to authority, he asked for a reference again, she pretended that he was arguing a different point than she was even though he quoted her article back to her, he asked for a reference, etc etc etc.
Instead of eating some humble pie and listening to him, she dug in her heels and turned to exclamation points, ALL CAPS, and a non-admission that she was wrong. All she had to do was STFU and listen, but she chose to get all defensive instead. Alan is passionate about discovering the truth; he’s passionate about untangling the bullshit marketing from what will help people reach their goals; he fights every day to provide people with healthful, reasonable, inexpensive ways to achieve the physique that they seek.
I don’t think that Alan Aragon is infallible or that he is god, but until I have a logical, evidence based arguments that will challenge his positions, I’ll stick to STFU and listening. So should you and so should Kath.
If you disagree with Lyle’s style and you think he’s an elitist prick, then that’s your opinion, but know that Alan is not Lyle, he can think for himself, and he strives to treat everyone with courtesy and respect. Alan chose to post that thread on a forum with few regular readers that is supposed to be off of the Google. He has earned the right to call people out on their bullshit. Have you?
I hope you have a good night. Please play nicely with everyone tomorrow. TGIF!
Cheers,
John
Alan Aragon says
Jason,
I’m almost certain that Kath has learned new stuff as a result of our discussion. I didn’t think she did half bad, considering how new she is at this game. It did take a little massaging to get some sincere admission of error, but hey. I was a young, proud dietetics undergrad once, so I know what’s up with that :)… You on the other hand, should probably keep prowling Lyle’s site instead of stepping in and belittling Kath without realizing it.
Later.
God says
Dear Jason,
Stop. It. Stop the trolling.
– God
CJ Fitness says
God’s right, lol. This is probably the most attention Jason got all week. Good trolling! Bravo Jason!
Jason J says
I can’t believe this moronic troll, Jason shares the same name as me.
God damn, Jason. You really need to get laid. Maybe that will solve your anger issues and jealousy towards Alan and et. al. You are a nobody; trying to make a name for yourself by going against people with reputations, in hope of gaining attention you normally wouldn’t obtain on your own. You could die today and not have anyone miss you, well, with the exception of maybe your mother.
Summing up:
Jason. Needs. To. Get. Laid.
But that’s too much of a demand, considering that he can’t get it done.
Jesus Christ says
Jesus Christ. I feel bad for Jason’s parents.
Jason, you sure your parents aren’t related?
Chris Shugart says
It is clear that Jason needs to man up and be a real man, like we have on my website.
Jason clearly needs to stop being fat, and work on getting lean for once so that he’s not fat.
That’s a real man.
Bill Roberts says
Alan is a pussy.
Moses says
Jason.
Go get that pussy. It will make you feel better, son.
Dano says
Lyle is ugly and he smells funny, too.
TC Luoma says
Bill, I don’t pay you to post here, I pay you to shill *our* products. Get back to work.
Bill Roberts says
I’m sorry, TC Luoma.
Okay, folks. Biotest will be releasing a new product in the future, called Anaconda. Its so effective, its even considered better than steroids.
At this moment, I can’t provide any references from pubmed and et. al. You’re just going to have to take my words for it. Just look at my credentials.
Note: Alan, you’re still a pussy. And Dano, Lyle is not ugly at all. He’s a strong, good-looking guy. Leave him alone. He gets more ass than a toilet seat.
Tim Patterson says
You’re both fired.
Christian Thibaudeau says
*seated overhead presses the three of you for 5 cluster reps*
Bill Roberts says
Wait. Why am I fired? I advertise the hell out of Biotest, along with their upcoming product, Anaconda.
I see. It must be the fact that I’m not hating Alan and Lyle enough.
Alan, you’re a pussy. Come over to tmuscle and feel the wrath of my anaconda. Lyle, Dano was right. You’re just plain ugly.
Jesus Christ says
Bill Roberts. No wonder you got fired…for lack of originality. Stop with the plain name callings. If you really think Alan is a pussy then fight him. I’m sure he will rip you to pieces with his brotacular muscles. Put your money where your mouth is, son.
Can everyone please stop calling Lyle ugly? I mean he is ugly, but still, there’s no point in stating the obvious. Plus, looks aren’t everything. If that was the case, then Lady Gaga or Blake Griffin wouldn’t be stars, let alone be allowed to live life.
Lyle is ugly says
Lyle is ugly. What you going to do, Jesus? Forgive me?
President Barack Obama says
As president of the United States, I will sum up what happened to the newbies.
Summing up:
– Kath starts preaching about dietitian stuff.
– Alan comes in. Agrees with Kath on most of the stuff, except for a few. Starts questioning about it.
– Kath mentions that she got the info from her professor, who is highly qualified to make such claims because of his credentials.
– Alan disagrees and wants the claims to be back up by scientific studies.
– Kath dodges the question, only to have Alan ask her again.
– Eventually, Kath says that the claims are just speculations. Nothing more.
President Barack Obama says
– Then this troll, Jason comes in and starts trolling.
– Ninjas and monkeys from Monkeyisland comes in and start trolling on troll, Jason.
– God comes in and tells Jason to stop trolling.
– Chris Shitter from T-nation comes in and starts saying some gibberish, while advertising the tmuscle site.
– Bill Roberts calls Alan a pussy.
– God sent Moses to send Jason a message, which was “go get that pussy.”
– Dano calls Lyle ugly.
– God then sent his son, Jesus in to settle the dispute.
President Barack Obama says
Summing up:
– Jason is a troll
– Bill Roberts got fired
– Bill Roberts got owned by Jesus Christ.
– Lyle is ugly.
– Lyle is ugly.
– Lyle is ugly.
Fredrik Gyllensten says
Haha, I love this discussion between Kath and Alan!
And Jason; I see your point, but why is correcting Kath a bad thing? He is not trying to bash her, but to learn her, and this blogs readers, the truth.